#6334 #6335
[Third Issue of the Day]
#8
Gazeta
July 2, 2002
NEMTSOV: THOSE WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT ARE DOOMED
An interview with Union of Right Forces leader Boris Nemtsov
Author: Yulia Ulianova
[from WPS Monitoring Agency, www.wps.ru/e_index.html]
BORIS NEMTSOV ON STRATEGIES FOR THE NEXT ELECTIONS: "I DO NOT WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN A NO-WIN ENTERPRISE. I'M NOT A POLITICAL MASOCHIST, YOU KNOW. I SIMPLY KNOW THAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE TO BE GIVEN A CHOICE. WE SHOULD BE THINKING IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE, OF RUSSIA AFTER PUTIN."
THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN HAS STARTED. THE CENTRISTS LAUNCHED IT IN SPRING. THE COMMUNISTS HAVE DISCUSSED THE IDEA OF PRIMARIES. THE UNION OF RIGHT FORCES IS TRYING TO UNIFY ALL RIGHT-WING FORCES WITH THE IDEA OF A SINGLE CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT...
Question: Perhaps the election campaign has been launched a bit too early?
Boris Nemtsov: No. The atmosphere of the 1999 campaign will seem like a happy fairy tale compared to what will happen in 2003 - and especially in 2004. All administrative resources will be activated to support the pro-government party. All secret services will be mobilized. The nation will be living in a political state of emergency.
By 2004, the ability of independent parties like the Union of Right Forces to convey their points of view to voters will be severely restricted. It follows that all party structures all across the nation need to be mobilized. Preparations for the election need more time. It was clear in 1999 that the leading politicians would be able to communicate with the citizenry via the ORT, RTR, and NTV networks - but nowadays it is clear that only NTV and perhaps TVC will be available for the purpose.
Question: Is that a general impression, or do you mean something specific?
Boris Nemtsov: Consider the situation in the military and the demonstrations we organized. The military situation is catastrophic. Chief of the General Staff Anatoly Kvashnin is talking of a crisis. The Union of Right Forces has proposed a detailed plan for transition away from conscription, to a professional military. Our supporters demand an end to all this - cruelty in the barracks, corruption at army enlistment and recruitment offices, shorter military service, etc. As a result, the Kremlin banned the "all this chaos" campaign organized by the Union of Right Forces and invokes censorship at TV channels when leaders of our party speak about the problem. How should a party with millions of supporters act under the circumstances? It should prepare for the future election.
Question: How will the additional time benefit you?
Boris Nemtsov: Firstly, we will reinforce the regional components of the party. Democratic parties with a long history really exist only in Moscow. If they remain parties of their leaders alone, then getting rid of them only requires shutting down information channels. We need people who are eager to go into the corridors of power and make their careers in politics.
Question: How are you going to attract people? Your popularity rating is not that high. A lot of Russian citizens will vote for Putin...
Boris Nemtsov: Who says all of them will vote the way they have been told? Millions are not going to vote for bureaucratic capitalism.
And by the way, why are regional branches of democratic parties so weak? Because at the federal level there are federal politicians with a clear position - Gaidar, Khakamada, Chubais, Nemtsov. As far as they are concerned, failure of the party is their own failure. At the regional level, there are no failures like that. It follows that there is no motivation for ordinary party members. We consider it our achievement that we have managed to unite the interests of the party rank-and-file with the interests of the Union of Right Forces. In striving for personal success, everyone strives for success of the party in general.
Question: It is going to be an achievement if it works in 2003. For the time being, this is just an idea.
Boris Nemtsov: This is a practical solution that will be implemented. Why is the United States prosperous? Because everyone there has opportunities... Everyone has to have a chance. The Union of Right Forces is the party that offers it to everyone.
We say, "People, the parliamentary election is coming up. You are a party branch leader in Mary-El or Chuvashia (we have weak branches there). If you can get some decent results for the Union of Right Forces in your region, you will get a seat in the Duma." It doesn't matter than the person might never have been a member of the faction. Everyone gets an opportunity. What other party offers anything like that?
Question: What if some candidate for the Duma decides not to bother? Why count votes, indeed, when it is quite all right not to count them...
Boris Nemtsov: It's a good question. But there are too few parties in the political arena. It is not like business. There are many companies in business, but only 225 seats in the Duma, not counting single-mandate districts. Rivalry will be considerable. So you mean the opinion that "Since they force us to work for the Union of Right Forces, we would rather join the LDPR or Unity"? Something like that? Firstly, if anyone thinks so, they had better quit. We are a party with an ideology. If someone doesn't care about ideology, they had better go join Vladimir Zhirinovsky. I do not think, however, that anyone like that would be welcome there.
We are going to build our own party because I'm convinced that nothing will get done in Russia unless it has a strong democratic party.
We need a party in Russia to promote the interests of the middle class and the new generation. This is the Union of Right Forces.
Question: We have few people like those you are talking about. Your electorate is small and is bound to remain small for a long time to come.
Boris Nemtsov: In the first place, 12 million Russian citizens are involved in small and medium business. They are our voters. Secondly, there are about 2 million teachers in Russia. Unfortunately, they are impoverished - but since they are well-educated, they are closer to us than to any other party. They are our voters too. Besides, there are millions of young managers and administrators in Russia nowadays. They are ours too. Democratic-minded Russians of all age groups are with us as well.
I agree, of course, that it is difficult for a democratic party to get nationwide support in a country where a third of citizens are living below the poverty line - but sitting still and doing nothing is not for us.
The regime is trying to set up a two-party model - the pro- government party and the communists. This is not right for Russia. It is not Russia's choice, it is a choice of the bureaucracy. Because the bureaucracy knows that it will surely defeat the Communists, since Gennadi Zyuganov is no Che Guevara. The Kremlin is quite content to have a tame sparring-partner.
The choice we offer is a choice between the present and the future.
Question: Is that why the Union of Right Forces is proposing a single presidential candidate representing all democratic forces?
Boris Nemtsov: A single candidate will be a signal to society that the democrats stand together. A single candidate will have a task understandable to everyone: to finish second or third. Then the winner, the future national leader, will be forced to take this candidate into account. In other words, the president will not be able to form the government in disregard of the opinion of the right.
Question: Why is that? And even so, why not nominate a strong democratic candidate without the trouble of getting the consent of other democratic parties?
Boris Nemtsov: Having several candidates would be a disgrace, utterly discrediting the whole idea.
Question: Do you mean that consolidation of democrats is essential for nomination of a truly strong candidate for president? What I mean is that if you are nominated as a candidate by all democratic forces, it will be all right; but not all right if you are a candidate from the Union of Right Forces alone. Isn't having a decent policy platform sufficient?
Boris Nemtsov: As for me... it is widely thought that Nemtsov is ever so ambitious. I have a problem - I always win elections. Always! The Supreme Council in 1990, the Federation Council in 1993, the governorship in 1995, and the Duma in 1999. I do not wish to participate in a no-win enterprise. I'm not a political masochist, you know. I simply know that the Russians have to be given a choice. We should be thinking in terms of the future, of Russia after Putin. Putin has built a controlled democracy in Russia - with state- controlled TV, with Chechnya, and by extorting budget funds from the regions. He is turning the Federation Council into a "House of Lords" now - the senators will not be recalled when he is through with it. Controlled democracy has its own internal logic. The screws can only be tightened. The process cannot be stopped, because Russia is a land of extremes.
Well, let's get back to Russia after Putin. There are only two possible scenarios here. First: Russia slides into national chauvinism, compared to which the neo-Nazi skinheads and street gangs of today will seem like a minor affair. Second: the current authoritarian trend will give way to democracy, as it did Portugal after Salazar and in Spain after Franco. We want Russia to be democratic. Unless the trend is fought, however, the scenario will be authoritarian.
Question: All the same, there is something to be said for the Putin regime. Are you satisfied with its economic decisions?
Boris Nemtsov: The regime is too sophisticated nowadays, it knows better than to slide into the Soviet past. In economics, the regime is fairly liberal and moves in the direction (more or less) all of progressive civilization is moving. As for its history... This regime was generated by the secret services and the Russian security bureaucracy. It owes everything to this bureaucracy. It follows that the regime takes the bureaucracy into account more than it takes the citizenry into consideration.
Alternative civilian service is a vivid example. Or take the law on citizenship. This law was promoted by the secret services. It advances their interests, and this is the regime's strategic error. Russia is dying. We have 145 million people now, but only 80 million will be left by 2050! We have only 20 million people between the Urals and the Russian Far East. There will be only 10 million there 30 years from now. Meanwhile, there are 1.5 billion people just across the border!
Question: What else can you say about the regime's strategic errors?
Boris Nemtsov: All across Russia, people have no hot water. You want to know why? The lack of hot water in apartments is a corollary of the power hierarchy. There is more to the power hierarchy than strengthening administrative structures - presidential envoys and so on. Budget money is involved too. Money has been commandeered away from the regions, into the federal government. Who is supposed to pay for hot water? Municipalities, the impoverished local governments.
Unless we respond to things like that, no one will respond to them.
Question: You are going to respond with a single candidate? Will there be one? Yavlinsky and Yabloko are skeptical about the whole idea. Liberal Russia views the initiative as your own personal publicity stunt...
Boris Nemtsov: Ten days ago Yavlinsky objected to the idea. He and his followers. But he sees now that such behavior amounts to political suicide.
We know that reaching a compromise with Yavlinsky will be difficult. We know that everything possible will be done to scuttle the idea. Who will want it scuttled? Yavlinsky and the people in the Kremlin who do not want a single presidential candidate representing all the democratic forces. That's all right, we are patient people. We will walk this path to the end.
In the long run, the strategic choice of Russia is at stake: a choice between democracy and dictatorship. Personal ambitions should be forgotten. Those who do not understand this are doomed, politically.
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