#6334 #6335
[Third Issue of the Day]
#11
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002
From: Larisa Glad <lglad@voanews.com>
Organization: Voice of America
Subject: Kalugin at VOA
Dear David,
Here is the Kalugin interview translated by me. It was aired yesterday and you can find the Russian version on our website under the title "ó×ÅÄÅÎÉÅ ÓÞÅÔÏ×" at www.voanews.com/russian
Mr. Kalugin, welcome again to the VOA. You've been so generous lately giving interviews that the Russian media calls you "a broadcasting Oleg". Nevertheless, the word is not forecasting … at least not yet. So the verdict is in: 15 years of maximum security for betraying your motherland. How did you manage to betray it, having left it 10 years ago?
I know it sounds sinister but somehow it didn't scare me…. First of all because I experienced something of the sort in 1990 when I publicly denounced the KGB and joined those who demanded radical reforms in Russia. Former President Gorbachev stripped me of my rank, medals and pension, so what happened last Wednesday was just a rehash of the past. And by the way the prosecutors at the time also initiated a criminal case against me for treason, so it's nothing new.
History repeating itself?
Right. But back then it was quite dramatic for me because I did not expect Gorbachev, who was at the helm of reform, or at least kept talking about reform, would suddenly take such a decision. It turned out however that he did it under the KGB pressure. And the head of KGB at the time was Kryuchkov, a very powerful man, and Gorbachev didn't want to cross him.
And how about now?
Well, now it's a farce to me. Because nothing happened since then. I haven't been working for the intelligence for 22 years now, and all they charge me with now is what appeared in a book published in the United States in 1994. Eight years later they suddenly…
It was all rather sudden. Could it be connected with Mr. Putin, who after all was your colleague?
Well, I personally don't attribute it to Putin, although he definitely could have played a decisive role in the outcome. The thing is that when the former old KGB was dismembered in 1991 and Kryuchkov went to jail for treason, they just went underground. But after Yeltsin's failed reforms, when the people realized that they had been deceived, nostalgia led many of the former leaders - including Kryuchkov - not only to be released but even permitted them to raise their voices in defence of traditional Soviet values. And when Putin came to power they in fact became the leaders of the country. And I mean here not the old KGB but a new generation… they are more contemporary and more literate, but their mentality is just the same - that of the KGB and the Cheka - they are the same offspring of Dzerzhinsky and Andropov, and they rule the country today.
The Amercans not only won't hand you over to the Russians, but they will reinforce your security, I understand. How about abroad? Can't they "get" you there?
It's not easy to get me… First of all, I am not all that toothless as one might think. Secondly, if I become an American citizen - and I will become one in any case in May of next year ... that is, if nothing gets in the way. I know that my friends are now actively collecting signatures for a petition to Attorney General Ashcroft asking him to immediately grant me citizenship.
But if you are somewhere abroad?
I don't think they will try to seize an American citizen. That would be outrageous… especially now when Mr. Putin is trying to develop good relations and make it look at least that Russia and America are partners, if not allies. Besides, Russia is the only country which I have no intention to visit- and that's not that came up today or last Wednesday when the verdict was announced, but 2 years ago when President Putin and I exchanged "niceties". He then called me a traitor. And that was the first time that any official, even the top man in the country called me that. So I responded to him with an open letter in which I said that if he calls me a traitor without due proccess I can call him a war criminal. So I wrote then that I have no desire or intention to go to Putin's Russia and that he himself can be proud of opening a new chapter in the history of Russian political emigration.
A sort of fifth wave of emigration.
…but I would be happy to visit any other country.
One can now call you "a deprived person"… no ranks, no medals, no general's pension. As the Russian media put it "you have been sentenced to be a tour guide of "famous spy spots in Washington D.C." Are you upset?
Ha-ha-ha…. Well, first of all, the only medal that was taken away from me which I regret losing is the Medal for valor for the defense of the White House in August of 1991. President Yeltsin awarded it to me. I am upset about it, yes. Secondly, my pension… I have to tell you that the day that the Moscow court sentenced me to 15 years in prison the President of the Center I work for - The Centre For CounterIntelligence And Security Studies - called me and asked how much was the pension that they took away. I told him it was $150. He said then that I can quote no loss because as of July 1st my salary would be raised by $150. I understand - and he does too - that it is not the money that counts, but the moral support means a lot. As for my so called "grim future as a tour guide" I must say that this statement is a typical demonstration of the mentality of the "proletariat nobility" of the Soviet kind for whom that kind of work is too low and unworthy. You see, I have lots of interests and jobs that pay well but I like to work with prople… I get a kick out of it when I share my experience, and people like to talk to me. I would never work in a place and with people who I don't like. And so I don't feel damaged in any way. Let them, those "Soviet barons" feel above it all.
So, the verdict is in. Could you appeal it?
Yes, my lawyer… and I say "my lawyer" because he acts on my behalf, although I have never met him and never even heard his name before he was appointed by the court… Evgenyi Baru took a surprisingly bold but consistent stand. He decalred after the court procedures that, having analized the documents of my case, he found no evidence of any criminal acts. He thinks that the whole case is built on allegations, rumors and gossip, as well as media announcements. He is going to appeal in higher court within a week. An interesting legal question might arise. As of July 1st all trials in absentia are annuled and then I do not know what the Supreme Court will do.
Really?
….If it's making its ruling after the law is in place, would the ruling be legal? But in general I would say that all of this is politics. It's the revenge of former chekists against a man who helped destroy the KGB. And I can once more quote Kryuchkov, who in his memoirs wrote, and I quote him: "Bakatin and Kalugin were think-a-likes and even co-conspirators with Alexander Yakovlev in breaking-up the Soviet Union and the KGB. Now these very people are close to power and they are the instigators of the trial. In other words, they're just settling scores.
Oleg Danilovich, thank you for your time.
Thank you.
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