#10
Trud-7
January 23, 2003
IGOR IVANOV: WE ARE BETTER PRAGMATIC THINKERS NOW
An interview with Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov
Author: Vladimir Mikheev, Andrei Stepanov

FOREIGN MINISTER IGOR IVANOV DISCUSSES RUSSIA'S FOREIGN POLICY PRIORITIES, THE WAR ON TERRORISM, AND THE SITUATION IN IRAQ. HE DENIES THAT RUSSIAN DIPLOMATS ARE PERSUADING SADDAM HUSSEIN TO STEP DOWN. HE ALSO MENTIONS NORTH KOREA, FOREIGN TRADE, AND THE CIS.

Question: Could you please list the most important foreign policy tasks Russia is facing?

Igor Ivanov: There are strategic tasks we are constantly working on. First and foremost, the matter concerns national security in the broad sense of the term and more specific spheres - the war on terrorism for example. The second task concerns establishing favorable external conditions for solutions to domestic problems. The task of protecting the interests of citizens of Russia and ethnic Russians abroad is no less important. And of course, regional crises, they remain a priority for all of us.

Question: How would you gauge the degree of the threat to Russia posed by international terrorism? Some experts say that Russia is about to become the prime target for terrorists in the nearest future.

Igor Ivanov: Russia was probably the first country to encounter international terrorism face to face. It happened in the Caucasus. Not everybody recognized it even in the wake of the terrorist acts of September 11, 2001. Gunmen operating in Chechnya, gunmen with established contacts with international terrorist organizations including Al Qaeda are not put on the list of international terrorists. Well, we have been doing what we can to have our partners to see the light.

Needless to say, the firm stand on the matter of international terrorism taken by the president and government of Russia angers radical groups and organizations. Let's face it: there is an external threat to Russia from these quarters.

Question: Do we have evidence that terrorists are controlled from one command center, that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are global ringleaders, and that both should be dealt with in the same manner?

Igor Ivanov: I do not think it would be prudent to talk about any single terrorist headquarters. On the other hand, certain elements of international terrorism have indeed established contacts and cooperation. We disagree, however, with the assumption that the failure of the search for bin Laden should be compensated for by claims that Iraq is the major center of global terrorism. This is what we say: the international community has certain objectives and tasks in Iraq. The matter concerns eliminating weapons of mass destruction if and when they are found. This objective is specified by all UN Security Council resolutions. Not one of these documents ever mentions replacing the regime in Iraq. It is not up to the UN to decide which country should have which regime.

If international inspectors say when the time is up that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or there were some but were destroyed, we believe that lifting the sanctions against this country will be the next logical step.

Question: There are the rumors that Moscow is trying to persuade Saddam Hussein to step down and seek refuge abroad.

Igor Ivanov: Moscow has never done anything of this sort. Newspapers in some countries run these articles in order to discredit our policy. We have not severed all contacts with Baghdad (we need them to know its thoughts and mood) and discuss with it the matters that concern UN Security Council Resolution 1441. But allegations that Russian diplomats are persuading Saddam Hussein to step down - this is only an unfounded speculation. Had it been so, it would have amounted to interference in Iraq's domestic affairs.

Question: What aspects and factors are taken into consideration when scenarios of Iraqi crisis management are considered?

Igor Ivanov: Nobody will venture to give an exact evaluation of the consequences of a military operation against Iraq. We assess all sorts of options, including the ones that have bearing on Russian interests in the energy production sphere. We have economic interests in Iraq, after all. I would not, however, call these factors decisive. Our long-term interests are connected with maintenance of global stability, with the future of the United Nations, and (in a broader sense) with our interests in the Mideast and Persian Gulf. We should not harbor any illusions here that anyone will place Russia's interests above their own. That would be naive. We should be realists.

Question: How would you comment on the words of US Defense Secretary Colin Powell - that "with the GDP like that of Holland, Russia should be very cautious in the matter of its relations with rogue states - because getting too close could scare away the Western investment Moscow has been seeking"?

Igor Ivanov: We have not been making any advances to anybody. We do not think that isolation of any country closes avenues for solutions. Dialogue with North Korean leaders, for example, resulted in suspension of the missile and nuclear programs. Yet, agreements should be honored by all involved parties. In accordance with the 1994 agreement, the United States was supposed to build two nuclear reactors in North Korea and meet its requirements for crude oil before then. The United States did not fulfill its obligations.

What tactics should North Korea's neighbors choose? Russia is one of these neighbors, and its has every reason in the world to be concerned about the latest developments on the Korean Peninsula. Threats, sanctions, and blockade may be used. To what end? Positions of the sides will become but more inflexible. We have always opted for a dialogue. Beijing, Seoul, and Tokyo agree with us on that.

Question: Your are closely acquainted with how ministries work with the media in the West. There is the impression that we still have a lack of openness in Russia, that every now and then there are attempts to avoid contacts with the media, Russian and Western alike, and to duck comments and explanations...

Igor Ivanov: I understand that as a newspaper, you would greatly like to be the first to run an official explanation from the Foreign Ministry. You should bear in mind the following detail. When a representative of any other ministry says something, the Foreign Ministry can "correct" him afterwards. When it is the Foreign Ministry speaking, it expresses the official position of the state. Only the president can "correct" us. Hence the need for more time for analysis, for official approval, and so on.

We would like to be able to respond at a faster rate too. I understand of course than when the Foreign Ministry is not the first to speak up and express the official position on some issue, somebody else will gladly oblige and do it for us. Sometimes, we find ourselves racing against time - we have to make a statement and express our position while America across the ocean is still asleep.

Question: The CIS. Do you think it has a future, or is it a phantom?

Igor Ivanov: I do not think anybody is satisfied with the current state of processes of integration in the CIS. Objectively speaking, however, we have made it through several phases already. When the Soviet Union collapsed, there were powerful political forces in Moscow that thought that Russia should not have anything to do with the new sovereign countries; that it was self-sufficient, strong, and wealthy enough to embark on its own way. That was the first phase, when each CIS nation chose its own path. This past decade has made us very different. It eventually dawned on us that this process was costing us economic contacts and markets. It became clear that there can be no reasonable alternative to integration within the framework of the CIS and other structures.

Question: What weapons does the Foreign Ministry have in its arsenals as a ministry that participates in meeting the nation's economic objectives?

Igor Ivanov: Attracting foreign investment and assisting our companies in venturing out to foreign markets are our objectives. What is needed to achieve that? In the first place, predictability of foreign policy.

Secondly, the nation's image. The image of Russia abroad has changed due to active and constructive foreign policy. I remember my first trip to New York, in the capacity of foreign minister. I had to repeat over and over that we had nothing to do with the New York bank scandal. Eventually I lost patience, went to The New York Times office and said: all right, you say we permitted withdrawal of so many billions of dollars abroad - now let us combine our efforts and get the money back from American banks. I would not say they were overly enthusiastic to hear that.

Thirdly, I can say on the basis of my own experience that about half of the time in all negotiations conducted by our government (and the Foreign Ministry of course) is dedicated to economic cooperation and proper political lobbying for Russian business interests.

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