VOLK: Well, I think the most remarkable things that the US campaign to ban landmines has achieved since it began only a few years ago is working with Senator Lahey and people like Representative Evans and Representative Quinn to pass legislation that created a national initiative for --

INTERVIEWER: Okay. What have been the greatest successes of the US campaign to ban landmines since its inception?

VOLK: Well, from my perspective here on the Hill, working with friends committee on national legislation and seeing the work of Representative Evans, Representative Quinn, Senator Lahey, the teamwork that was done by the campaign and those legislators to create a national initiative for a landmines ban, which then helped to prompt international action that resulted in a treaty, that's it. It's a remarkable accomplishment.

INTERVIEWER: What have been the biggest disappointments of the US campaign?

VOLK: Clearly, it's the failure of the United States government to sign and ratify the mine ban treaty, what's called the Ottawa Treaty.

INTERVIEWER: Do we need him to go back and say that was the biggest disappointment?

VOLK: Okay, when you look at the biggest disappointment that the US campaign to ban landmines has experienced in these few years of work, it's the fact that the United States government has not signed or ratified the mine bans treaty. What we call the Ottawa treaty.

INTERVIEWER: What, then, is the strategy of the US campaign to ban landmines as we move into the next phase of the Ottawa process, the entry into force in March?

VOLK: I think our strategy is to remind policy makers, and particularly President Clinton and the people in his administration, that this is a humanitarian issue, not a military utility question. And, the way we're going to do that is to work to open their eyes, soften their hearts, unplug their ears, so they can hear from the people, the landmine survivors, the communities that have to deal with this problem day after day, that it's very important for the US to take an initiative to get rid of these indiscriminate weapons.

INTERVIEWER: How is the US campaign to ban landmines working with the international campaign to ban landmines to achieve your goals?

VOLK: The US campaign to ban landmines has a very close working relationship with the international campaign to ban landmines. And, one of the important activities that we'll undertake this year with the international campaign is to mark the special events during this coming year. The most important one, probably, is when the Ottawa treaty enters into force March the first, nineteen ninety-nine. And, then we'll go on and work with them around the first meeting of the state's party's at Maputu.

INTERVIEWER: What would you like to see, what would the US campaign to ban landmines like to see happening with the US government position. Clearly, you'd like it to change, but what do you see as the next step, and how can that be achieved ____ some strategies that you'll be undertaking?

VOLK: Well, as the United States has not yet signed or ratified the treaty, the next step that they could take would be short of signing or ratifying the treaty, and that could be to say, we'll comply virtually with all parts of the treaty. We won't produce, we won't stockpile, we won't sell, we won't transfer landmines any more. We'll just stop doing that. Another very practical thing they could do would be to expand their destruction program. Right now, they've said we'll destroy our dumb landmines, which are the landmines that last forever. And, what we would say is let's destroy all of your dumb mines and let's destroy the smart mines, too. You don't need them.

INTERVIEWER: What are some of your strategies for helping get some of these things accomplished? Will you be working with the administration, or are you working through Congress?

VOLK: I think the United States campaign to ban landmines strategy, to try to influence government policy this next year, will focus on seeing them as our potential partners. Basically, what we're saying to them is we want your leadership, we need our leadership, and we need it before two thousand six, which is when they've said they'll sign. So, what we need is for them to take steps as rapidly as possible. There are some specific aspects of the campaign to do that. One is to raise public awareness. It's very important to do that. And, around the entry into force, we're going to ask churches all over the country to ring bells on that day to let the country know the mine ban is in force and it's time now for the United States to join it.

INTERVIEWER: How do you plan on keeping this issue fresh for NGO's and individuals who've been working so tirelessly on this issue for so many years? How do you keep the momentum going?

VOLK: Well, we look forward to working with Senator Lahey and Representative Quinn and probably Representative Evans on new landmines legislation. And, we don't know for sure what shape that legislation will take. But, one of the things the US campaign to ban landmines would like to see Congress do would be to codify or enact the presidential decision directive of May nineteen ninety-eight. There, the president said we've changed our position. We're no longer saying we'll no longer sign the Ottawa treaty. We're saying now it is US policy to take the necessary steps to sign and ratify Ottawa. So, if we could get Congress to reinforce that, that would be a good next step.

INTERVIEWER: How do you get average citizens involved in the issue in the United States? How do you keep them motivated and convince them that this issue is worth fighting for?

VOLK: Well, the way to keep people motivated to work on this, and this goes back to your earlier question, how do you keep this issue fresh for the non-governmental organizations --

INTERVIEWER: Do you mind -- we're going to stop because it might not be in the same --

VOLK: The way to keep the, your question is how do we keep the public motivated and active on this issue? And, one of the most important things is the landmines survivors, the role of the landmine survivors. There are tens of thousands of landmine survivors here in the states and many from abroad who will come to visit and tell their stories, what these landmines do. And, when the American people here this, they really resonate with the need to act on this issue. It is remarkable to me the degree to which the US public has been so compassionate on this issue. And, that compassion will then compel the government to do the right thing.

INTERVIEWER: That was a really -- that was like ___, and I'm even like visualizing, like, now merge into Ken's story. What, if you had your druthers, what would you like to see happen in the next year with US landmine policy? Clearly the US is not going to change their position and suddenly go sign the Ottawa treaty. But, what is something very concrete that you will see as a success if the next year of the US campaign achieves it.

VOLK: I'm going to have to interrupt for just a second. What, are you saying what is it that the --

INTERVIEWER: Yeah, like what -- citing the, I mean, signing the Ottawa treaty would be phenomenal. It's not going to happen. So, what would that, that nugget be that you could say, look, in this year, we got them to --

VOLK: What would it be that the government could do on landmines and the campaign would say, good, that's the right next step. There are several of these right next steps that are possible in this year. One, a government report, which Senator Lahey has called for in passed legislation for, could come out and say, as a matter of fact, we don't anti-personnel landmines. They don't have military utility, and there already are alternatives to landmines that comply with the Ottawa treaty provisions. That would be a real big step ahead. A second thing that would be possible and recommendable would be for the United States to say we already have so many landmines. There's absolutely no reason for any corporation to make components for landmines, and, therefore, we're going to stop government contracts with companies that make components for landmines. Those would be two big steps.

INTERVIEWER: That's great. I think that it's probably --

VOLK: Another thing that the campaign to ban landmines would like to see happen is for the President to assume his Commander in Chief duties with regard to this. We know that other presidents have played the necessary civilian role in telling the military you can't do something. Examples of this might be FDR telling the military that, even though chemical weapons have military utility, they can't be used in the assaults on the islands in the Pacific in World War II, and the military accepted that. That's not a job the military can do. The military's job is to say I need this, I need that, we have to have this and that. The civilian Commander in Chief is the one that has to say to the military, ah, but that's one you can't use because humanitarian law, humanitarian needs, are more important. And, we would like to see President Clinton step up to the plate and hit that home run.

INTERVIEWER: That was good, too, right there.

MR. SAPIENZA: All right. Any examples of what people maybe can -- okay we're rolling.

VOLK: Right, right. You know, a lot of people call our office and say what can we do, what would be helpful? I think one of the most important things for people around the country to realize is there are a lot of people like them. They already want to work on landmines. They already believe that this is an important humanitarian issue. And, the step that's missing is getting their point of view into the public arena. I think a lot of people assume their message doesn't count. A simple phone call or a short thoughtful letter to their member of Congress, to their senator, and to the President, especially around anniversaries of, for instance, the entry into force date, would make a huge difference in helping to influence members.

INTERVIEWER: That's really good.

VOLK: If people can prepare a brief, well thought out letter, that says I would like for my government to join the mine bans treaty now and to comply with all of its provision, that would be a very helpful thing.

MR. SAPIENZA: I'm the viewer, and I'm, I'm like going, yeah, ban land mines, land mines bad, Princess Di's dead and all that stuff, but I'm going, the military seems to think that it's useful at the DMZ in North Korea, there's arguments that it's used, I don't understand why, what your arguments are.

VOLK: A lot of people have asked, why does the US campaign to ban landmines think the military doesn't need the landmines? And, there are basically two reasons that we would say that, I think. One is a moral one, that landmines are an indiscriminate weapon that are triggered by the victim, and are outlawed by international law and the rules of war. But, there will be arguments about that. The government will say, well, no, we wouldn't do something that's illegal. There are practical reasons not to use landmines, too. The ____ Military Institute gave a report, I'm told, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that said the US military depends on rapid mobile forces, moves fast, landmines get in the way of moving fast. And global ban on landmines would actually benefit US military forces. So, why is the United States refusing to sign the treaty under a circumstance like that? We suspect the reason is that there is a fear that there will be a domino effect or this is a slippery slope. Civilians dipping into the military arsenal, pointing at one weapons systems and saying you can't do that. And, if it happens on landmines, well, then maybe it will happen on cluster bombs and then maybe it will happen on blinding lasers. And, where will it stop? And, I think on this issue, the point is landmines has a campaign around it, have been around for decades. There is a movement that has finally said, you know, it's really violating humanitarian law. And, look, as a practical matter, your own military institutes tell you you don't need it.

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