INTERVIEWER: Okay, interview with Ken Rutherford, February 2, 1999. If you could tell me a little bit about your experiences in Somalia, what the circumstances of your being there was, what happened to you, and then ended up bringing about the landmine explosion that you experienced.

RUTHERFORD: I went to Somalia in 1993 to work with credit unions. Basically, my job was to help recently returned Somalis and terminally displaced Somalis with small business loans to jump start their lives again. And, as part of that work, I was educating Somalis on how to process loans. And, on December 16, 1993 we drove out to look at a loan applicant's project site, when we hit a mine and the vehicle I was in blew up.

INTERVIEWER: And, what happened to you and the other people in that vehicle?

RUTHERFORD: Most everybody was okay. A couple of us were injured. There were eight, nine, Somalis with us, with me. And, unfortunately, you know, a couple of us got hurt bad. I was in the right front seat. So was another Somali. We both were the most seriously hurt. His leg was badly damaged and I ended up losing both my legs, and a bystander lost an arm.

INTERVIEWER: And, were you flown back to the United States, or what kind of treatment did you receive?

RUTHERFORD: Uh, in Somalia, the treatment wasn't really good. The hospital didn't have any pain medication. So, it took about a half an hour for help, first of all, to arrive, to get us out. We were in a pretty isolated area. And, I had to radio to call for help. And, that's how help came. They knew where we were.

They brought me to a Somali hospital. It didn't really have a lot, and, with badly damaged legs and blown off foot, I was in a lot of pain. And, so a plane came in to get me and, three of us, and flew us out to Nairobi. And, that's where one of my legs was amputated.

And, then the next morning, they flew me to Geneva, Switzerland, and was there for about a week. Had a lot of blood transfusions, three more surgeries. Then when they flew me to Colorado, where I'm from, and there's a great hospital there to re-attach limbs, mostly with farmers. And, they tried to attach one of my feet back. And, uh, had about ten surgeries since. And, about two years ago, I amputated my remaining leg here in Washington.

INTERVIEWER: How do you think your experiences as a survivor have differed from those of your Somali counterparts or other survivors around the world? It sounds like you had excellent care and had the opportunity to go to a lot of Western hospitals. What can you say is about the difference between the treatment you received and the treatment that the average survivor receives?

RUTHERFORD: I think, as a landmine survivor, I'm probably one of the luckiest ones, if not the luckiest. For one, I'm a male and my fiance stayed with me and ended up marrying me. Now, if you're a woman, almost in any society, your boyfriend or husband will probably leave you. At least that's been my experience with women landmine survivors. Secondly, we have great medical facilities in this country, and good legs, and so I don't have any reason to complain about my situation in comparison to other landmine survivors.

INTERVIEWER: Were the other Somalis that you were with, were they taken also to the United States, or did they have to stay in Nairobi?

RUTHERFORD: They, they were in Nairobi. I understand the man who lost an arm has disappeared somewhere in Somalia. They can't find him. And, the other Somali with a damaged leg, kept his leg and he limps very badly and has had several medical procedures since then.

INTERVIEWER: Why did you decide to amputate the leg that you were able to keep in Colorado? Why did you make that decision?

RUTHERFORD: I decided to amputate my remaining leg when I realized I couldn't keep up with my two and a half year old son. And, he tends to run off, as kids do, and I had a fear that he could run in front of a car and all this. And, up to this period of time, I was very grateful that I had a leg, I had a cain, braces to walk in, so I felt comfortable. But, I was in a lot of pain, and I was fooling myself, I think, throughout those years that, hey, I have a foot, you know, I'm alive. It's God's way of telling me that you're still around, Ken, don't complain. But, when my son started walking and running, that's when I realized I wanted a more active lifestyle. And, I figured I could do that better with two prosthetic legs rather than just one.

INTERVIEWER: Can you talk a little bit about the kind of prosthetics that you have, the technology and how that, you know, that yours differ from that of those in Cambodia or --

RUTHERFORD: Can I show off my legs?

INTERVIEWER: Sure.

SAPIENZA:Let's save that for later. I do want to do that, but we can just do it a little more --

RUTHERFORD: All right. I have great legs. I mean, I don't have any complaints. By the end of the day, I'm tired, and tend to wobble, like a duck. But, you know, I feel comfortable with my legs. I ride a stationery bike, I work out with weights. Walk to the Metro and things like this. But, you know, I do get blisters. My legs do get sore sometimes where I have to be in a wheelchair. And, at night, when I take my legs off, you know, I tend to crawl around the house. And, with three young boys, you know, they definitely take advantage of me when they know daddy has his legs off.

INTERVIEWER: How does that differ from the plight of other survivors in other countries that maybe have, you know, less sophisticated prosthetic devices?

RUTHERFORD: Uh, gosh, you know, I worry all the time about my kids and sort of if my situation not having legs has compromised their lives by having a father without any legs. So, I can only imagine what parents in developing countries must think in situations worse than mine. You know, how do they provide for their kids and interact with society, in general. I could cover up my legs with pants, and I'm trying to be come a school teacher, so I'm in the library a lot. And, so, I'm not out in the field and very active that way, but I think, you know, I think they're probably losing a lot of sleep. More than I am.

INTERVIEWER: Why is it crucial that we put a human dimension to the landmines issue?

RUTHERFORD: I think, for anybody to become engaged in an issue, they have to be emotionally engaged. And, when people are educated about the landmine issue, they tend to gravitate towards the victims side of the issue. That most of the victims are civilians, over ninety percent. Many of them are women and children. And, this weapon takes off body parts. You know, they're not really designed to kill, they're designed to maim. And, so, if you factor in those variables of the weapon itself and bringing in the victims and putting the face behind the statistics, it makes for a pretty emotional cause.

INTERVIEWER: Will you tell me a little bit about your organization, the Landmine Survivors Network?

RUTHERFORD: The Landmine Survivor's Network is the first organization for landmine survivors by landmine survivors. And, really, the idea initially was to advocate for assistance and for the rights of landmine survivors and to incorporate landmine survivors into all facets of landmine programming. From hiring landmine survivors as landmine awareness instructors, to de-mining, to encouraging assistance for disabled populations. So that, if people are going to talk about the landmine issue, let's also help those that were most affected.

SAPIENZA:Could you run through that list again? What do you do for landmine survivors?

RUTHERFORD: Well, the Landmine Survivors Network, really, there's two sides of the coin to Landmine Survivors Network. The first side is advocacy, helping to put a face behind the statistics. And, this runs the range of educating Americans about the landmine issue by showing that Americans are affected by landmines, that Americans should care, too. Hosting conferences in the Middle East and Bosnia for landmine survivors, disability rights, educating an international donor community, what programs should be done for landmine survivors. Or, if programs are being done, how can you incorporate people with disabilities and landmine survivors? And, using landmine survivors in these countries as a way to keep their countries honest in supporting the ban.

The second side is the programming. And, this is, we have an office in Bosnia, staffed by twelve outreach workers, mostly landmine survivors. A full-time staff of three. And, what their jobs are is to go out in the rural areas of Bosnia to find landmine survivors, do a brief survey, interview what, who's assisting them and why, what's lacking in their lives, have they contacted service providers, whether public or private? If they have forty services, are they being provided, are they high quality, and, if not, what could we do about. And, if this particular landmine survivor has no idea about where to find a leg or shelter or money for school or any of these things, we try to plug them into the existing social service network.

SAPIENZA:Can you just tell us real quickly how many countries, you know, worldwide, or --

RUTHERFORD: We're, uh, the Landmine Survivors Network has an office in Bosnia and we're setting up programs in Mozambique, Eritrea, and Jordan.

SAPIENZA: Great.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. What kinds of activities and plans do you have in the coming year to help with your work on landmines?

RUTHERFORD: Well, the major one is going to be, occur before the show airs.

INTERVIEWER: That's okay. Pretend that it -- just say on March 1, 1993, we're going to be having -- or --

SAPIENZA: Let's see, that may date it, I guess, somewhat. I'd just say, in general, lay out some of your goals. And, if it has already occurred once the show airs, that's fine. At least it will be out there.

RUTHERFORD: Maybe you'll cover this.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah, but the problem is the show will be done.

SAPIENZA: We'll actually already have finished editing at that point.

RUTHERFORD: Oh, I see. You can put a footnote, like there's a future show about this in the future.

SAPIENZA:Well, we'll get it in there, you know, get the information in there, so it will be --

RUTHERFORD: Okay, all right. Uh, a really big project that I'm working on personally, that I'm really excited about is the Landmine Survivors Network is bringing American landmine survivors to Washington, D.C., on the date the treaty to ban landmines enters into force. And, this is really unprecedented, to get a collection of American landmine survivors together to educate the American public about landmines and why should we care. About half are veterans from World War II, Vietnam, Korea, Bosnia, and the Gulf War. And, the other half are civilians -- tourists, farmers, relief workers, and students. And, this presents the whole range of the landmine issue to the American public. And, we're --

SAPIENZA:I'm sorry. I'm just thinking -- if, and naturally --

RUTHERFORD: So, just like start off with the question why Americans should care about mines?

SAPIENZA:Pretty much, yeah.

RUTHERFORD: And, then I go --

SAPIENZA: Or, if they don't think that it affects Americans, think again, because --

RUTHERFORD: Okay, why don't you start me off?

INTERVIEWER: Okay, how do landmines affect everyday Americans? What kinds of things are you doing to bring the issue home?

RUTHERFORD: Well, America -- you made me smile on that.

INTERVIEWER: It's not a funny issue.

RUTHERFORD: What we're trying to do at the Landmine Survivors Network is educate the American public on why Americans should care about landmines. And, one of our projects is to present the face of American landmine survivors to the American public. Many Americans do not realize that landmines --

SAPIENZA: I would start off again saying we, at the Landmine Survivors Network, are trying to bring to bring this issue to the public. One of the things they don't realize is that --

RUTHERFORD: Okay. One of the activities that we're trying to do with the Landmine Survivors Network is to educate the American public about the landmine issue. Many Americans don't realize that landmines were one of the leading cases of injuries to our soldiers overseas, especially in Vietnam, where over thirty-five percent of our casualties were due to landmines. And, many Americans don't know that. I didn't even know it until a couple of years ago. Many Americans have been injured by mines in World War II, in Korea, in the Gulf War, in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia, in Operation Provide Comfort in Iraq.

Americans from all sectors of life are being affected and this not only includes soldiers, but also includes civilians. There have been students overseas, American students overseas, injured by mines; Americans working on farms overseas being injured by mines. There has been tourists, American tourists, killed by mines overseas. Relief workers, such as myself, are threatened by mines. A former colleague of mine lost both her legs in Zaire to a mine, a nurse from Idaho. I lost both of my legs in Somalia doing American projects overseas.

And, so, when Americans think about this issue, they just can't think that, because America doesn't have landmines, we shouldn't care, or that's not affecting me or us. But, one day, a family member may be in potential harm in more than sixty-five countries around the world where there's landmine problems. And, increasingly, American soldiers are serving abroad. They're covered by American reports, backed up by American NGO's, or there's American tourists going everywhere. And, increasingly, Americans are being threatened by landmines. And, so it's more of a preventive. What we're trying to do is educate the Americans why we should care, what we should do about it, and the disability facet of the landmine issue.

INTERVIEWER: What angers you about US policy? What would you like to see changed as you're doing this work? What kind of changes in the future of landmine policy would you like to see?

RUTHERFORD:: I really believe that the United States can sign this treaty without hurting the American soldier. I believe in America, you know, preserving the life of American soldiers. My brother was a soldier. He served in Korea. If any of my three sons served in the US military, I'd be very proud of them. And, I want them to have all the range of tools to protect themselves. I believe that range of tools does not have to include landmine to protect them.

INTERVIEWER: That was really, really -- my little mind was working there.

SAPIENZA:I like the American soldier.

RUTHERFORD: Yeah, I didn't do that too well, did I?

SAPIENZA: Well, I think --

RUTHERFORD: Started to stutter.

SAPIENZA:I think you should do it again, then we can slap stuff together -- it would be great. All right, go ahead.

RUTHERFORD: One of our activities at Landmine Survivors Network is Educating Americans about the landmine issue, and I really believe that one of the reasons we didn't sign this treaty is because Americans haven't been educated about the issue. Because there's not landmines in America. And, what we're trying to do is educate Americans on why they should care, and why we should sign the treaty. And, there's really no better strategy to do this, than present American who have been injured by mines. And, you'll see the whole range of American society reflected in the faces of landmine survivors who happen to be Americans. These are soldiers. Many Americans do not realize that the leading casualty, or leading --

SAPIENZA: Okay, that's fine. You can pick it up right there.

RUTHERFORD: Many Americans do not realize that more Americans were injured by landmines than any other weapon in Vietnam. Over thirty-five percent were injured by mines. Americans, soldiers, have been killed and maimed by mines in Operation Restore Hope in Somalia, Operation Provide Comfort in Iraq, the Gulf War in Iraq and Kuwait, World War II, Korea. So, you have really our history of international involvement in war, this weapon is wiping out American soldiers. Most recently, Bosnia. Several of our peace keepers have been injured or maimed by mines, and it's really constricted our room to maneuver in Bosnia and what we could do. The number one threat to American soldiers is landmines in Bosnia. It's not snipers. It's landmines.

The other side of that coin is American civilians are being injured and killed by landmines. American tourists have been killed by mines, most recently, a couple of years ago. Exchange students from America studying abroad have been maimed by landmines. Relief workers, such as myself and a colleague. A fellow colleague of mine lost both her legs working in Goma, Zaire, on projects funded by our federal government. Uh, and, Americans working overseas -- farmers, reporters, have all been injured and maimed by landmines. So, you can look at any facet of our society -- women, children, men, tourists, soldiers. Landmines affect us. And, as the world's only super power, I think, it's really appropriate that we take a leadership role on this issue because it affects us and that's

RUTHERFORD: Okay. I can say, I'm sitting before you as a landmine survivor who's extremely lucky. After I was injured by a mine, I had a radio to call for help. Most landmine survivors are not so lucky. Over half die in their own blood after they get hurt. I had a radio to call for help, vehicles to come out and rescue me, brought me to a local hospital, stabilized me, flew to a third country to get help, Switzerland, that's after going though another country, Kenya, to amputate one of my legs, and sending me on to a fourth country. I was in five or six hospitals in a period of about a month. And, so, I had great help, medically, to keep me going. I believe it was like nineteen blood transfusions in twenty-four hours. Eleven, twelve, surgeries to keep me going. I mean, most landmine survivors die in their own blood or their families wouldn't be able to transport them in time to a hospital to get help. So, I'm extremely lucky and blessed to be here and to be an American.