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Show Transcript America's Impact on Russia
Produced June 20, 1998
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Interviewees:
ALEXEI ARBATOV Member, Russian Parliament
SUSAN EISENHOWER Chairman, Center for Political and Strategic Studies
ULYSSE GOSSET French Television Correspondent
IRINA HAKAMADA Member, Russian Parliament
ELIZA KLOSE Executive Director, ISAR
WILLIAM MAYNES President, Eurasia Foundation
PETER REDDAWAY Professor, George Washington University
BLAIR RUBLE Director, Kennan Institute for Advanced Russian Studies
STEPHEN SESTANOVICH U.S. Ambassador-at-Large
ANNE WILLIAMSON Author, "How America Built the New Russian Oligarchy"
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NARRATOR: A few years, when the Cold War ended and the Soviet regime collapsed, Russians and Americans seemed to face a bright future together. Former enemies became admiring, new-found friends. But the glow is off the romance. Perhaps the two countries are only fickle friends. BLAIR RUBLE: I think the biggest issue has been a kind of attitude, particularly in the United States, that we're dealing with a defeated nation. And there's a certain unconscious and sometimes quite conscious humiliation of Russians. SUSAN EISENHOWER: At the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union I remember one friend of mine said to me, "The problem is that we in Russia ham put ourselves up for adoption and there were no takes." That sense of isolation has grown by leaps and bounds. NARRATOR: Russian worries are aggravated by the expansion of the NATO military alliance and continuing severe economic problems. Although big changes are taking place there, Russia remains a nuclear superpower. The shape of Russia's future is very important to the United States. WILLIAM MAYNES: Russia is a Western country. Russia is a capitalist country. And Russia is a country that we need to have friendly and cooperative as we're going to meet the security and economic challenges of the future. ADM EUGENE CARROLL (USN, Ret.): For "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR," I'm Admiral Eugene Carroll. We Americans have lost most of our interest in Russia since the Soviet Union fell apart and the Cold War ended. This is a big danger. Although Russia has fallen on hard times, good relations between our two countries remain central to world security and prosperity. We need to be paying more attention to what's happening in Russia and understand what Russians are concerned about. The expansion of NATO is just one recent development which is causing problems. Our program today brings you insight from experts in both Russia and the United States. I think you will find it stimulating. NARRATOR: The world is filled with change, even if sometimes we Americans are late in paying attention. Where once the Cold War raged, a new Russia is emerging that in some ways, at least in Moscow, looks a lot like the United States. This is not your father's Russia. ULYSSE GOSSET: You can feel the Americanization of the Russian society every day. You look in the streets, you see the signs in the streets, you see the movies, you can see in the theaters, you look on the television -- everywhere there is American influence now. NARRATOR: American companies, American products, and American culture are widespread in the new Russia. Popular American magazines appear in their Russian versions. American restaurants and soft drinks are widely available. Ads for American consumer goods run on television. Thousands of Americans live and work in Russia, primarily in Moscow, where most of the money is to be found. It is the new frontier, the wild East, an exciting, if sometimes dangerous place to seek one's fortune. America offers additional attractions for Russians. Irina Hakamada is head of the State Committee on Small Business and a member of the Russian Parliament. IRINA HAKAMADA: (Translator) Bill Clinton is very appealing to Russians. He is a young and interesting president and many dream that at some time there might be a similar president in Russia. NARRATOR: But Russia's fascination with the United States is waning rapidly. Pro-American attitudes are being replaced by growing skepticism about American influence and American policy toward Russia. ALEXEI ARBATOV: The attitude towards the United States has changed very tangibly and presently is rather negative. There is a strong sense of anti-Americanism. VASILY AKSYONOV: Attitudes have changed completely now. It's hard to say something positive about the United States now in Russia. Mr. Ruble: At some point, Russia will be back and if -- when Russia comes back it doesn't feel as if it was treated with respect now, then we have a much bigger problem on our hands. NARRATOR: These pessimistic views reflect a reality that American policymakers seem slow to grasp. Today, even as Russia under goes another economic crisis and arms control treaties flounder, most Americans pay very little attention to Russia. Americans don't understand or care about Russian concerns. But inattention to Russia could be a big mistake. Susan Eisenhower is chairman of the Center for Political and Strategic Studies. Ms. EISENHOWER:: I see the crisis that has emerged right now as maybe almost equally a Western crisis. Do we have the courage to stand up and say the future of Russia is our primary national security concern? And are we now willing to now make it our immediate business to sit down and figure out what kind of comprehensive plan could be put together to assure Russia's integration into the West. NARRATOR: Blair Ruble is the highly respected head of the Kennan Institute for Advanced Russian Studies in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ruble:: And another reason Russia is important to us is, first off, all the nuclear weapons which are still there. And despite President Clinton claiming they're no longer aimed at us, they can be targeted at us probably more quickly than I've just finished this sentence. So, they're still there. Secondly, tremendous natural resources and wealth. Third, I think the environmental issues are very important. That environmental degradation is not completely contained within boundaries. Western nuclear submarines in the Arctic Ocean won't only pollute Russia. So, there are those issues. Also, and by far not least, there is a very talented population of Russia from whom we can learn a lot. NARRATOR: Blair Ruble reminds us that although Russia is weaker today, it remains a nuclear superpower. Just a few years ago, the United States was fixated on the Soviet threat. Hundreds of billions of dollars were spent every year. Huge military establishments with thousands of nuclear weapons were constructed in both the United States and the Soviet Union. We and the Russians were the sole members of the so-called superpower club. For many Americans and Russians, this competition provided a sense of national purpose. That's all over now. But adjusting to the new circumstances isn't easy. Some old Cold War attitudes linger on. But we should remember that Russia and America have a long history. The two countries have solid grounds for a good relationship, according to William Maynes, president of the Eurasia Foundation. Dr. MAYNES: This is not a country with which we have had hostile relations for most of our history. Indeed, Russia has been one of the most friendly countries towards the United States historically. With France, it supported us in the War of Independence. It was the only country in Europe of any significance that supported the North in the Civil War. Every other country in Europe wanted us broken up and divided. NARRATOR: Maynes also notes that Russia was eager to sell Alaska to the United States in 1867 in order to help cement good relations. He finds the conflict of ideologies during the SOviet period a passing phenomenon. Dr. MAYNES: The main source of US-Russian rivalry was ideological and that rivalry is dead. We have been involved in a 70-year struggle between Wilson and Lenin and Wilson won. And we should just acknowledge that and go back and look at US-Russian relations from their longer historical perspective, which is one of cooperation and friendship and not of hostility. NARRATOR: Even during the Soviet period, the United States exercised considerable influence on the Russian people. The attraction of the American model was widespread, despite anti-American propaganda. Vasily Aksyonov is a well-known Russian novelist who currently lives and teaches in Northern Virginia. Mr. AKSYONOV: Despite this massive propaganda, this average guy still believes that Americans look like us, they like dreams, they like cars, they like their women, whatever, things like this. We have a big country. They have a big country. NARRATOR: Ulysse Gosset observed firsthand the transition from the Soviet Union to Russia as a French television correspondent in Moscow for seven years. Mr. GOSSET: Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, you could see the American influence in the way people would like to dress, like buying American jeans, listening to American radio, the Voice of America trying to get the American news, and to travel to the West. Getting a visa to New York was a dream, probably an exercise in dreaming for most of the people. After '91, you could feel the influence because there was a new kind of economy, an economy -- a market economy which is coming from the United States. And probably the symbol of all that was the opening of the McDonald's restaurant in Moscow, in the center of Moscow. NARRATOR: The period of official enmity between the Soviet Union and the United States ended suddenly and unexpectedly under Mikhail Gorbachev in the late 1980s. The prospect of a new, closer relationship between the two countries emerged. Pro-American views flourished, both among the elite and the larger population. This was the romantic period in US-Russian relations. Mr. ARBATOV: Everybody really understood that the Soviet era is coming to its close. So, they were looking for a model and they couldn't find a better model than the United States. NARRATOR: Alexei Arbatov is a member of the Russian Parliament and an expert on military and arms control issues. Mr. ARBATOV: Enormous euphoria and hope that Russia would become very soon America's strategic partner, maybe even a full-scale ally, that after the Cold War we have common interests in Russian domestic stability, in preventing major shifts in the balance in power in Asia or in Europe, that Americans would cooperate with us in providing for some stability in post-Soviet space around Russia. There were great hopes for that. NARRATOR: Vasily Aksyonov notes that good feelings towards the United States peaked during the aborted coup attempt in August 1991, when Russians, led by Boris Yeltsin, rallied to the defense of the Russian White House. Mr. AKSYONOV: Those three nights in August of '91 was probably the most glorious nights in the history of Russian civilization. And that was the great inspiration and the sense of the unity with the world. NARRATOR: Unfortunately, however, disillusionment very soon set in. Rapid economic reform, sometimes labeled "shock therapy," destroyed the savings of millions and had a drastic impact on the lives of Russians. The United States has had to take some blame for this. Mr. ARBATOV: The economic reforms that were implemented since 1992 with very deep and broad involvement of American advisers, consultants, with advice and actually directives from the International Monetary Fund, from the World Bank, those economic reforms brought about unprecedented downfall of production capacity, shrinkage of GNP by 50 percent. NARRATOR: William Maynes underscores just how far the Russian economy has fallen. Dr. MAYNES: The Russian economy is now the size of the economy of Pennsylvania and New Jersey together. It would take Russia nearly 50 years to reach the level of the US economy in 1950. NARRATOR: Much of the US aid to Russia in recent years has actually gone more to Americans than to Russians. According to Blair Ruble, an attitude of arrogance has helped to turn sympathetic Russians away from the United States. Mr. RUBLE I think there was a real opportunity. It began to be squandered when it became clear that the United States wasn't going to deliver quite as much money as people thought and that the money that was being described didn't really ever reach Russians. It tended to go to contractors who sent over 20-something-year-old Americans who smiled a lot and walked in and tried to tell 50 and 60-year old Russians what they should do. I think that arrogance began to erode whatever goodwill there had been. NARRATOR: Peter Reddaway is professor of political science at George Washington University and a former director of the Kennan Institute for Advanced Russian Studies. He agrees with Blair Ruble. PETER REDDAWAY: The United States is widely seen as bossing and trying to control Russia, as overwhelming it culturally through an invasion by US pop culture. We were much too sure we had the right recipes, and much too assertive in pushing them on the Russians. When we suspected they might not be right after all, we declined to stop and review them. We plowed on and hoped for the best. Now we're beginning to pay the price. NARRATOR: What have been the objectives of the US Government in its policy toward Russia? The official version sounds good. Stephen Sestanovich is a top State Department official dealing with Russia. Sestanovich has to defend the Clinton administration's policies against growing congressional opposition to cooperation with Russia. STEPHEN SESTANOVICH: First, we seek to reduce the threat to the United States and to international peace posed by weapons of mass destruction. Second, we support democracy and respect for human rights, including religious freedom. Third, we strongly support Russia's continuing transition to a modern market economy. Fourth, we seek a Russia that cooperates with its neighbors and is integrated into Euro-Atlantic and global institutions. NARRATOR: Other experts identify less idealistic US objectives in dealing with Russia. Mr. Ruble: What has the United States been trying to achieve? Well, I think if you talk about senior American policy leaders in the Clinton administration, they simply wanted to achieve a quiet Russia that could be wrapped up, put it on the shelf and forgotten about, so that it wouldn't interfere in American policy. Probably most people involved in the policy process would like to see a benign Russia, by which they mean a Russia that won't get in our way. NARRATOR: The push for rapid economic reform and privatization of the economy was the main focus of US efforts. Privatization, the transfer of state property to private ownership, was guided by American advisers and was accompanied by tremendous abuse and corruption. Anne Williamson is a journalist who has investigated privatization in detail. She is the author of a soon-to-be-published book "How America Built the New Russian Oligarchy." She faults the economic reform program for hastily destroying the old system without putting anything in its place. ANNE WILLIAMSON: That was also misguided because it's a huge, vast country and essentially we tore away the structures and the institutions that could be used to govern it. And therefore, we hastened the chaos. Overall, I would say the American effort fulfilled just about the worse nightmare of every Russian nationalist. They feel themselves to be an occupied country. Their national assets have been lost to a very aggressive and greedy class of their own and foreign interests. NARRATOR: The United States Government has given very strong support to President Boris Yeltsin, viewing him as the personification of reform in Russia. The United States supported Yeltsin even when he used violence to disperse the Parliament in 1993 and in the war in Chechnya. According to Susan Eisenhower, this has undermined American influence in Russia. Ms. EISENHOWER: Everytime Russia -- this is in my own opinion -- had legitimate concerns about their national security, i.e. NATO expansion, or the trade restrictions they're still subject to, we don't support them at all. And so, the Russian people just don't get it, you know. Everytime the Russian people are put upon their own government, we support Yeltsin. Everytime their concerns are legitimate, we don't support Yeltsin. So, we have to have a complete overhaul of the way we look at this field, and we better start soon because we do have a crisis on our hands. NARRATOR: Discontent with the United States has been accelerated by NATO expansion and other examples of what Russians perceive as US policies aimed at undermining their influence. Mr. ARBATOV: The United States were quite heavy-handed and very inflexible and actually treated Russia as a defeated power, although Russians and Russian political leaders consider themselves to be the primary winners after the Cold War. Because it was Russian political elites that overthrew communism and disbanded the Soviet Union. It was not the United States or NATO. NARRATOR: The explosion of cheap American mass culture also created a backlash of opposition among the Russians. Ms. WILLIAMSON: After the collapse of the Soviet Union, an enormous amount of Western entertainment began to run on television. It wasn't very high quality, it was pretty racy and sleazy stuff, not our best. They weren't very comfortable with it and I don't think we should be surprised in the least. I imagine Americans would be quite surprised if suddenly they were fed a steady diet of Russian television. NARRATOR: Our conversations with average Russians in Moscow confirmed popular discontent with some aspects of the American culture influence. MAN-in-the-Moscow Street (translated): If you take our television, I can't bear watching it. Everything is Americanized and un-Russian. WOMAN-in-the-Moscow Street (translated): There's a bad influence of American films on our children. Our film industry was always more profound, more serious. It had a humanistic element in it. NARRATOR: Part of the reason for the turning away from the American model was the natural reassertion of Russian pride as a European country with a well-established culture. Mr. GOSSET: They are very proud of their own history, of their own country, and they kind of resist too much foreign influence. They feel very close to Western Europe. They feel European. If you are in Moscow, you are in Europe. In St. Petersburg, you are in Europe, more than anywhere else. NARRATOR: Russia shares its resistance to overwhelming American influence with other European countries, such as France. Russians increasingly seek to return to their national roots, to find their own path, still drawing on foreign experience. Ms. HAKAMADA: It would not be possible for a country like Russia with its own distinctive features to follow anyone blindly. It would be too primitive. But the techniques used in developing the American society on such a large territory should be used by us. Mr. GOSSET: They do not want probably to follow any model. They think really Russia is a model by itself. They don't want to make a choice. They want to be the great Russia. Mr. Ruble: Whatever solution it's going to take in Russia is going to have to be based on Russian soil and it will be taking the lessons from Europe, from the United States, from elsewhere and putting it through a Russian filter, including more of an examination of Russian history. NARRATOR: But there may be some question of whether the United States is willing to let Russians find their own path and, inevitably, make their own mistakes. Ms. EISENHOWER: (at Cato Institute): "We have been guilty, I think, in words and in deeds, almost by default, of giving the message to people in Russia that we have no confidence in their ability to move forward." Prof. REDDAWAY: (before Senate Foreign Relations Committee): "The majority of the Russian people feel that they're being manipulated by us. That we are imposing our type of capitalism, we're imposing our type of rules. And therefore, I think the most critical thing at the moment is for us to back off to a very considerable extent, especially at the governmental level and especially with the IMF. The Russians have to be allowed to make their own decisions, their own policies and their own decisions. They will make mistakes." NARRATOR: Although relations between Russia and the United States have somewhat soured at the official level, there have been important success stories in the cooperation of Russian and American non-governmental organizations, or NGOs. Cooperation has taken place in a variety of areas, including the environment, health, education, and computer technology. Grassroots contacts are flourishing, according to Eliza Klose. She is executive director of ISAR, an organization that pursues innovative partnerships with groups in the former Soviet Union. ELIZA KLOSE: When you're working directly on the ground with people at the grassroots level, at the community-based level, there's a lot less likelihood for disappointment and disillusionment than there may be when you're working at the macro or government level or business level. My own experience suggests that with every day and with every month, the relationship between Russia and the United States is becoming more grounded in reality. There are more people from the United States spending time in Russia, and vice versa. NARRATOR: We can take hope that Russians and Americans will continue to learn from each other and how to work together, both at the grassroots level and in addressing such big problems as nuclear proliferation and the reduction of unneeded military forces. Blair Ruble has final words of advice. Mr. Ruble: If we in the West don't treat Russia with respect now, at some point in the future when Russia recovers, then we're going to have a society that can once again project force and will have a chip on its shoulder. The worst thing we can do at this point is to basically write off the Russians, try to humiliate them consciously or unconsciously. Because at some point, this is a society that's been a European power for five or six centuries, it's not going to disappear. ADM CARROLL: We have heard Russians and Americans alike look back wistfully at 1991 as a time when prospects for US friendship and cooperation were very bright. Now we see that rosy glow giving way to darkening skies and storms ahead. Uniformly, these experts identified the root problem as a pattern of treating Russia as a weak, defeated adversary who must learn to accept America's values and do things the American way. As unpleasant as this picture is, it is not too late to accept the fact that Russia is a vast nation with rich resources and a long, proud history which we must respect. Russia one day will find its own way to renewed great power status and it is very much in America's security interests to be a helpful, cooperative friend during this process. We can grow together or we can grow apart. The wise choice is ours to make. Until the next time, for "AMERICA'S DEFENSE MONITOR," I'm Eugene Carroll.
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