INTERVIEWER: Okay, February 8,1999. Interview with Ambassador Don Steinberg. We can start with the Angola section. How did your experiences as the ambassador to Angola shape your view of the devastation of landmines and the whole landmine issue?

STEINBERG: Well, most of my adult life has been spent living and working in Africa where landmines are an everyday fact of life. More recently, in 1994, when I was serving as the President's advisor for Africa, I travelled to Angola, Mozambique, Eritrea, Ethiopa, and Rwanda. And, had the opportunity to observe first-hand the effect of landmines in those countries, which are among the world's most heavily mined.

In Angola itself, we visited a small clinic and, as we walked around the corner, we saw a woman on the operating table who was giving birth and having her leg treated for a landmine accident at the same time. It turned out that what had happened was that she was seventh months pregnant, she was starving, and she went into a mango grove to pick some fruit, and that grove had been purposely mined. And, the doctor told us that it was unlikely either the mother or the child would survive.

About eight months later, I went out to Angola as the US ambassador and, during the course of my four years there, I watched, on an everday basis, the effect of these landmines. There are eighty thousand amputees from landmine accidents in Angola. Literally hundreds of thousands of people who have been driven from their homes and their fields by landmines and, in fact, millions of people who are suffering the economic and environmental and even the psychological degredation as a result of these weapons. And, these are the kinds of things that we're trying to address within the President's de-mining two thousand and ten initiative.

INTERVIEWER: What, then, given these experiences and seeing the first-hand devastation, what should the first priorities of the United States be in dealing with landmines?

STEINBERG: Well, there are no quick fixes when you come to the landmine issue. There are sixty countries around the world that are infested with these weapons. About sixty million actual mines planted in the ground, and this problem has grown up over a course of many years. In Angola, for example, twelve separate armies have laid the three to five million landmines in the ground. And, so it takes a comprehensive approach. We need to be focusing on issues such as mine awareness and mine avoidance so that children and their parents learn what a landmine is and how to avoid it. We need to do comprehensive surveys throughout the countries that are affected by landmines so that we know exactly what we're dealing with on a very professional and detailed basis. Obviously, we need to demine. We need to be supporting non-governmental organizations and local government organizations that are actually pulling the mines out of the ground. In addition, we need to train de-miners.

And, perhaps one of the most important issues is the questionof landmine survivors. There are, around the world, perhaps a quarter of a million people who are survivors of landmine accidents. And, we need to look to assistance to them, not only to give them prosthetic devices and artificial limbs, but also to re-integrate them into society.

INTERVIEWER: Can you talk a little bit about what the de-mining 2010 initiative is what that means for de-mining around the world?

STEINBERG: The principle of the de-mining 2010 initiative is that we need a goal, a concrete fixed goal, to focus our attention. And, that goal, as defined by President Clinton about sixteen months ago, is that, by the year 2010, we will eliminate the threat to civilians around the world of anti-personnel landmines. That means, again, clearance of landmines, but also roping off landmine fields in order that children and their parents don't go into those fields. It means mine awareness programs. Under the initiative so far, over the last few years, we have devoted two hundred and fifty million dollars to programs around the world and, in 1999, I'm pleased that that number will be well over a $100 million.

But, I also think it's important to recognize that the United States alone can't address this problem. This is a problem that is going to require the efforts of non-governmental organizations who, indeed, were so instrumental in bringing this issue to the attention of the world community, such that they won and very much deserve the Nobel peace prize for these efforts. It will take other governments' involvement. And, perhaps equally important is the role of the United Nations, which has taken this issue on very seriously, and has created structures to coordinate efforts around the world to de-mine and address the other issues related to humanitarian de-mining.

INTERVIEWER: Can you talk a little bit about what US action has been, besides the mine awareness, what kind of specific on-the-ground things, do we have US soldiers actually doing the de-mining or are we training forces on the ground to do that?

STEINBERG: We have a law that says that US forces cannot enter foreign minefields. And, so, the Department of Defense has a very active program in which they are training local de-miners to go in and, indeed, a quarter of the world's de-miners have been trained under that program.

In addition, there are some very exciting initiatives we having going with the private sector. One of the most exciting is the United Nations Association of the USA and the Humpty Dumpty Institute have put together a program called Adopt a Minefield. And, under that program, around America right now, a hundred separate organizations are raising at least $25,000 a piece to have the United Nations go in and actually de-mine the world's most dangerous minefields.

We have a program going with DC Comics, which is supported by our Department of Defense and UNICEF, to prepare mine awareness comic books where Superman and Wonderwoman are already training the children of Bosnia, and, in a Spanish version, the children of Central America and soon the children of Portuguese speaking Africa, Angola, Mozambique, Guinea ___, and other countries. Educating them as to how to avoid these weapons.

We have another very exciting program in which the Martial Legacy Institute, working with the Humane Society, and again our Department of Defense, are training dogs to do mine detection in the world's most effected countries. And, it may sound strange that the Humane Society is involved in that exercise but, whereas twenty-five thousand people suffer landmine accidents each year, more than a half million animals around the world suffer these accidents. And, so this is dogs protecting the life of their fellow animals, as it were.

We also have another exciting program going on with Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation, in which they are conducting surveys around the world to inform the international community and local host governments as to the actual extent of the problems that they're facing on the ground. And, that effort will be essential to laying the groundwork for the completion of the de-mining two thousand ten initiative. Again, all of these programs involve public-private partnerships. And, if I can add one point, I think it's important for corporate America to get behind this program as well. We have some very interesting feelers out to corporations who are active in mine-affected countries around the world, and they should be looking at their own self-interest in eliminating what, indeed, may be a threat to their own investment projects overseas. Again, American corporate social responsibility programs can and should be dedicated to this effort.

INTERVIEWER: All of these programs are fascinating and exciting and I think have been somewhat successful in the initial testing phases. But, all of them focus on after the fact, kind of once the landmines have already been laid. What kinds of things -- I mean, the US has not signed the mine ban treat -- what kinds of things do you see in US policy shifting towards, not just de-mining, but also stopping the export, signing the Ottawa treaty, or, you know, taking unilateral action to stop exporting landmines?

STEINBERG: The United States did not sign the Ottawa Convention for very specific reasons related to the defense of Korea and the use of anti-personnel landmines within systems that we now use to address attacks from tanks, as occurred in Desert Storm. At the same time, our basic goals are consistent in eliminating the threat of anti-personnel landmines against civilians, in our case, by the year 2010. As part of that effort, the United States has indeed destroyed 3.3 million of our non-self-destructing anti-personnel landmines over the last few years. Indeed, all of our landmines of this kind that are not needed for Korea or for training.

Additionally, we're aggressively pursuing alternatives to landines and we have committed that, by the year 2003, we will no longer use these types of weapons outside of Korea. Additionally, we said that, by the year 2006, we will sign the Ottawa convention if we can find alternatives to these weapons and they deploy them. This is a very serious effort that's underway by the Pentagon. I had the opportunity receive a briefing just the other day on these exercises, and I think that they're very serious. Further, as I've, you don't want me to say this, I just said -- why don't I stop with that, on that point.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. Uh, what, the, you mentioned that the US has said that it will sign the mine ban treaty by two thousand and six if alternatives are found. NGO's we've talked to said the strategy is still to get the US on-board before two thousand and six. Is that realistic or is two thousand and six really, you know, the end goal for the US administration?

STEINBERG: That's the target. And, again, it is difficult to find alternatives to weapons that have been part of the American arsenal as well as the arsenals of the rest of the world quickly. I will tell you that we are, indeed, working aggressively to pursue that goal. We would all hope that we could achieve it. We would all hope that we could advance it. But, that two thousand and six date is the position of the Administration at this point.

INTERVIEWER: Uh, the, would you say, then, that the primary focus of US landmine policy is global humanitarian de-mining? Is that the priority? Is that the key to US landmine policy?

STEINBERG: I think there are two separate questions here. One, is the question of the treaty, the question of the Ottawa convention, specifically. But, in addition, what we need to do is address the problem on the ground. There are sixty million landmines or so planted in sixty separate countries. They are on an everyday basis affecting the lives of individuals around the world. Every twenty-five minutes, someone around the world steps on a landmine and has his or her life fundamentally changed because of one misstep.

And, a comprehensive program designed to make children and their parents aware of the problems, designed to educate ourselves as to the extent of the problem so that we can more rationally approach the issue, to actually de-mine and to train de-miners.

And, as I've said, a very important aspect is victims assistance . There are any number of programs the Landmine Survivors Network is performing around the world to not only provide prosthetic device and give movement back to these individuals, but then to deal with the psychological problems that occur when an individual's life has been fundamentally changed and when he or she may no longer be able to contribute to his or family in the way that, that was previously possible.

And, we are working, again, with a number of corporations around the world, as well as the Landmine Survivors Network. There's a group called the Physicians Against Landmines that is working under a US Department of Education grant to develop new prosthetic devices with appropriate technology, especially for children. And, we also have programs to link the caregivers together around the world using advanced computer technology so that someone treating a landmine accident survivor in an underdeveloped country around the world will have the capability to tap into all the best technology that's available now.

INTERVIEWER: You've mentioned several times different NGO partnerships and working with the NGOs. I think everyone acknowledges that the whole movement of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines changed the relationships between governments and NGOs. Do you see this as a partnership that will continue, that it's changed the model of the way civil society is involved in somewhat political issues, or is this kind of a one time? And, also, if you could talk after that a little bit about the partnership. You know, how you see the relationship between NGOs and the government on this issue.

STEINBERG: I think the role of the private, non-governmental organizations in the Ottawa Convention was fundamental and, indeed, it did form a new dynamic in terms of government agencies, international organizations, and NGOs working together for a common purpose. I think this is a model that many people see as appropriate to other similar issues. It is not the first time that this model was put together but, indeed, in recent history, it is clearly one of the most effective.

I think in the United States, in part, this comes from a sense of empowerment that individuals feel. I am, myself, a child of the '60s and we, during that period, believed that we could affect social change. That individuals working through government, working through international organizations, and working at our own level could affect social change, not only locally, but, indeed, globally, and I think this is a reflection of that. I think, indeed, the artificial barriers between who represents government and who represents the United Nations and the Red Cross and who represents an NGO are fading. I also think this is an issue in which national distinctions are fading. In Angola, when I was ambassador, we had the pleasure of funding lots of foreign organizations, including Halo Trust, which is a British group doing mining, the Norwegian People's Aid, the German NGO Medicos, the French NGO, Handicapped International. And, so I think those artificial barriers are going to be broken down as we look ahead.

INTERVIEWER: Do you see, then, the relationship on this issue between the US government and US NGOs solidifying and working together? I know some representatives from different parts of the Administration that I have spoken with express kind of a hesitancy to get involved with NGOs. They feel like they were blind-sided a little bit, that this was a Madison Avenue advertising campaign and that they were left out and made to look like the bad guys. Do you think that animosity is gone and there will be a real partnership, or do you think that there's gonna -- until two thousand and six, when the treaty is signed and the real goals of the US NGOs have been met, you know, it will kind of be a little tense.

STEINBERG: I think there are two separate issues here. The first issue is the question of the Ottawa Convention. And, on that, the officials of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines and the policy of this Administration are not consistent. And, of course, there will continue to be attention in that relationship although we hope that we will continue to operate in good faith, operate transparently. I will point out, for example, that the United States is one of the few countries around the world that, indeed, has publicly stated what our landmine situation is and have met, for example, the reporting requirements from the organization of American states in that regard.

But, I think, equally important, is the cooperation that we now enjoy with the groups that are actually involved in global humanitarian de-mining, including many of the groups that are associated with the Inaternational Campaign to Ban Landmines. We have a good dialogue with them. They have great expertise in how to address these problems, not only from the political sense of the treaty itself, but also the situation on the ground. I had the pleasure of participating in a conference in Mexico City just about a month ago where a lot of the advocates of the treaty from throughout the Western Hemisphere were together. And, it was a pleasure to deal with activists on the ground who have seen the impact of landmines in their country and are both dedicated to the issue itself and to the participation of the United States in supporting their efforts.

INTERVIEWER: Yeah, I was going to say, was there anything that I didn't ask that you felt like you wanted to make sure was --

STEINBERG: Uh, in addition, I think it's been very useful, let me cancel that. I also wanted to pay tribute to the effort of a number of members of Congress who have strongly supported this initiative, kept it on the radar screen. In particular, Senator Lahey, who has been so instrumental in obtaining resources for these types of programs, including for the Patrick Lahey War Victims Fund, which is, uh, this year going to be providing ten to twelve million dollars to assist not only the victims of landmine accidents around the world, but other victims of war. His staff assistant, Tim Rieser, has also played a key role in achieving these resources. Thanks.